Harvey Norman announced this week that they would be releasing weekly sales figures as an indicator of the state of the economy.
I think this is an extremely arrogant and naive approach to helping Australian's deal with the economic situation. Harvey Norman are clearly failing to recognise that consumers looking for the best prices in the current financial climate are moving to online stories in huge numbers.
I know Gerry Harvey's business has been painfully slow in moving online, no doubt through fear of cannibalising their retail sales model, but they surely can't think their stores are an indicator of the state of the economy!
What do you think? Should individual retailers -- not matter how large they are -- be presuming their sales can help gauge the success or failure of the Australian economy?
Comments
Hear what our customer's have to say.
Benjamen says...
Harvey Norman sell everything at an exuberant mark-up. When people have less money they shop around and find a better deal then they would at Harvey Normans so obviously their profits will be cut.
Posted at 1:37 p.m. on October 18, 2008
David says...
If Harvey Normans thinks they are a guage of the economy, maybe Gerry Harvey should get into politics.
Posted at 10:28 p.m. on October 18, 2008
aj says...
Ruslan are you volenteering to offer your sales information to anyone, as I understand your not a public company.
Posted at 2:42 p.m. on October 19, 2008
Ruslan Kogan says...
Hi aj,
As per my initial post and my comments to the media, my opinion about the Harvey Norman announcement was that their sales information was not a good indicator of the economy.
For that matter, I don't believe any one individual company should be arrogant enough to think that their own sales data is a strong indicator of the economy as a whole.
Posted at 2:01 p.m. on October 21, 2008
Sam says...
Absolutely... Harvey Norman are offering buy now and dont pay till 2010. Anyone falling for that gimmick is dumb. Their prices are way above the on-line market prices for similar products. In these tough economic times, guaging the economy by the retail sales for the entertainment products sold by HN is not correct.
Posted at 11:49 a.m. on October 27, 2008
Roy says...
I think you should take the higher road. I was completely blown away when I saw this attack on Harvey Norman. Not because I have anything to do with them but the point is I can't believe you are blatantly bad-mouthing your competition over something so indirect, it's just such poor form!
As they say: If you haven't anything good to say then don't say anything.
Please just take the higher road. You want Kogan to be a great brand, why risk degrading your image by being seen as bad-mouthing other retailers? If they are bad then great, but to be seen actively saying things like "Harvey Norman are clearly failing ... " blah blah blah. That has caused my view of Kogan to drop a few notches. Truly.
Posted at 1:38 p.m. on October 28, 2008
Anthony says...
Its a no wonder why younger generations don't listen to the older generations; if we are willing to pay 2 and up to 5x the price of the exact same item at Harvey Norman other than an online retailer or the local independent across the street then we shouldn't be taken seriously at all!
Harvey Norman is taking honest Australian men and women for a ride, if you disagree with that then you truly are a naive little.....
Harvey Norman is nothing but a big rip off, i give greasy to anyone who works there as to work for Havey Norman you have to have no compassion or conscience at all and for that you'll spend all eternity bathing in Satan's yeasty cod.
As for the chart thing and the claims, i think thats its nothing more than a stupid petty little attempt to try and get publicity.
Posted at 6 a.m. on October 29, 2008
Nathan says...
As one of the most successful and highly visible businesses in Australia, of course he can be used as a guage to business sentiment, particuarly as he sells a wide range of product. Whether you believe it to be valuable or not is up to your own personal judgement, but there would be others who look at that data with great interest, particuarly as he has been established for decades instead of a couple of years.
Although I guess if you read your flow chart of pricing on the front page then anyone who doesn't sell their products at manafacturers cost are out of touch.
Posted at 12:47 p.m. on October 29, 2008
CB says...
If Harvey's own 30% of the CE market, I would be listening to them.
I would also look at their business and try and emulate it. Does it make money? YES Has it been around for ages? YES Are the doors still open? YES
Why do we need to criticise success? Good on HN and good on you for dedicating your time, experience and hard work to become successful. There is nothing wrong with that.
Posted at 3:21 p.m. on October 30, 2008
Martin says...
I agree with Roy.
Kogan brand equity is best built through positive promotion of its own products and services rather than criticism of competitors.
Ruslan, congratulations on your success so far though - I think it's great.
Posted at 9:17 p.m. on October 30, 2008
Ben says...
It would be irresponsible not to listen to one of the largest electronic retailers in the country. They have close to $5bn in sales. Kogan has $8m. I know who I am going to listen to for market intelligence.
Posted at 9:17 a.m. on October 31, 2008
cameron says...
"I'll just let the market know what my sales are, as an indication of what is happening out there in the market, because there is no better indicator out there than Harvey Norman sales," chairman Gerry Harvey said.
Does this statement have weight? The intro to the piece read "HARVEY Norman, Australia's biggest electronics retailer...." You would have to think that turnover figures for the biggest in any market would be an indication of the market in general. Unless of course they are not Australia's biggest electronics retailer, and then the reporting entity should be forced to print a retraction.
In any case, I dont shop at HN. Never have, and unless someone else is paying, probably never will. Over-priced? YES. Unfortunately, there will always be people who don't know much about what they want to buy or where to research and get good info, so they go to physical stores looking for the advice.
Posted at 3:23 p.m. on October 31, 2008
Grant says...
I think it would be naive to discount commentry from Gerry Harvey - even more so to ignore his sales data. What other retailer has the market penetration enjoyed by Harvey Norman. Sure, it may be arrogant, but it is certainly not naive of him to think that his sales data reflects the state of the economy.
Retailers such as Kogan Technologies are the niche. You may be the future, but Gerry Harvey is still very much the now. In fact, if there were such a thing as an online retailer in Australia of the same scale that Harvey Norman is in bricks and mortar, it would make for an interesting comparison, but the simple fact is that such a retailer does not exist.
Posted at 11:11 p.m. on November 1, 2008
Anthony says...
Fair enough and i can agree to those... i bought a 12 pack of Phillips batteries there the other day for 5 bucks, now thats a bargain in anyone's language but the place is still a rip off and anyone who shops there thats willing to pay much more when you can find the same thing elsewhere for cheaper, is still a twat and that my fellow Australians, is what grabs me by the balls.
Posted at 9:09 p.m. on November 5, 2008
Sirie says...
The issue is not whether HN is cheap/expensive, it is are they a decent gauge of the economy.
My feeling based on turnover is yes. Any additional economic indicators are a good thing. There is no be all indicator that's why its good to have several to weigh up. When it comes to consumer sentiment they have the turnover to give a consumer confidence indicator.
Posted at 9:25 p.m. on November 7, 2008
aj says...
Samsung or Kogan???
Sumsung win
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/LATEST-SAMSUNG-32-1080p-TRUE-HD-LCD-BUILT-HD-TUNER-550_W0QQitemZ270298368948QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item270298368948&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A13|39%3A1|240%3A1308
Posted at 12:31 p.m. on November 12, 2008
Anthony says...
Sirie being cheap/expensive does have influence, i think i went a little bit off topic but i only did it to explain that Harvey Norman only got to where it is now "a decent gauge of the economy" by ripping Aussies OFF!
Being a gauge for the economy (when such a thing has a use but isnt really that necessary) is little comfort for those people who get ripped off... Ohh but if your an investor (minority) then its good.
So if i was to buy a certain Samsung model LCD Monitor for my PC (24") tomorrow for about $800 at HN what im actually buying is not only the monitor but for HN to get in a position to be a "gauge".. i dont know why HN wont go down to the local Hardware shop and pick one up, cheaper with less effort....
Ok ok so that was a bit stupid but then again so is paying 400 bucks more for something that retails at any other store for 600 but can be bought for 400 online and all for what.. to be a gauge?
Posted at 2:13 a.m. on November 18, 2008
John says...
Harvey Norman electronics have been ripping off the public for many years, But HN are not alone other's such as Bing Lee have been doing the same. I noticed for the past 18 months prices have fallen to world prices such as the usa but some new released technology products are higher. I used to by most of electronic stuff from overseas including digital camera's, mobile phone and LCD monitor. The price difference ranged from 30% to 100% and this included shipping cost but dont do it often as priced have leveled out.
Posted at 9:52 p.m. on November 18, 2008
Nick says...
It's amazing how many 'Intelligent' shoppers complain over the pricing policies of retail outlets on forums such as this. To each their own. It costs a lot to operate and maintain an outlet as reflected in the price of the goods. Whilst I agree on-line shopping is generally better in terms of pricing some people still want face-to-face service and advice not to mention somewhere they can visit in person should something go wrong. Harvey Norman offer by far the biggest range, the most payment methods and yes Interest free promotions on a regular basis. Of course it is going to cost more! Understand that you get to take the goods home today often with ZERO dollars down and you get to use the goods for on average twelve months minimum before you actually have to pay anything! Name ONE other industry that offers you service like that. Lastly, John, Australia's manufacturing subsidiary's purchase much lower quantities than their american counterparts which reflects in the pricing. 20 million living in oZ, 300million in the US. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Evidence of this can be seen with Philips and Hitachi pulling out of Australia. Kudos on the Kogan business model but Gerry Harvey probably isn't the type you want to get offside.....He has more power than you give him credit for.
Posted at 11:09 a.m. on November 19, 2008
cdog says...
Harvey wants to let more cheap labour into Australia to undercut local labour market.
His sales people are poorly trained and only care about making the sale.
I used to install PC's for Harvey Norman and they did not care about the customer's requirements. They only cared about selling them the most expensive PC they could.
Posted at 8:04 p.m. on November 24, 2008
Kaniva says...
aj,
first of all, that tv on ebay is up for auction, they have limited numbers and roughly only have a couple maybe a few up per week. so you have a very small chance to get a tv at only slightly less than here that is probably the same quality/panel anyway. and if it goes over your budget, bang you have to wait and wait till you might just be the lucky individual who wins it in the end for what, maybe $100 cheaper in the end at max after delivery fees?
for me, that tv came to $872 after delivery. not bad. but when will the next one be that price, who knows?
that same model over the past few weeks from the same seller has gone from prices varying from: $807 (better) to over $970 (without shipping) for me shipping there is $65. and there hasnt been one for $807 in a while and mostly they come closer to 900 (all without shipping)
there buy it now price for that tv is: $1049 without shipping.
so firstly you have to be really lucky to get one for a saving that is worthwhile.
then you have to be patient and watch the auctions and bids (which not everyone has the time to do) to see if you can be the lucky one to snap one up for cheaper.
and finally.... that tv is NOT even 100Hz mate, so you can't compare it exactly to these. find the samsung 100hz model and you'll see it costs more than the one you linked, which is technically inferior. and it does make a difference, especially if you are to do any gaming/pc use.
Posted at 7:32 p.m. on November 25, 2008
Nick says...
On Flexirent no doubt C Dog......What's your point though? They're salesmen, of course they are going to go for the highest dollar value possible. The same way customers want a 17 inch laptop with a 500gb HDD, 4Gb ram, Blu-Ray drive, carry case and Office Professional for under $1000. As for the cheap labour.....that comment's just silly. Migrant workers are still covered by the same protections locals are. There's talk of bringing in skilled migrants for industries such as construction because there's a SKILLS SHORTAGE!
Posted at 11:35 a.m. on November 27, 2008
David says...
Firstly Nick, Gerry Harvey is lacking the power now, because his business is starting to fall under this world economy, not to mention the amount of consumer's dropping off to get a cheaper price like at JB-Hifi or WOW sight and sound.. Also Nick Wow and JB's also offer the interest free gimick too, just like any other store i've been too... so Hardly Normal isn't the only one with the so called no cash up front policy.. I always say "If you don't have the cash to buy a simple thing like a big screen tv, than why buy one in the first place?
Because your not going to afford it later which is another factor at why the whole economy's dropping, cause of younger people having this whole credit card mentality and going into debt and can't pay back the money because they have other stuff to pay off on the card..
I am no expert but If the world go's into even a bigger fall in the economy, than all your assets like electronics and cars will be worthless and the only barter will be cash in hand..
Back onto the Hardly Normal issue,, I think, in my own opinion,, is that Hardly Normal sells Sh'tty off the repaired shelf product, which is a year old,, at extreme prices which also have a 10% off label on it, but is only at the regular price where you would buy from JB's.
Ive never seen something cheaper at Harvey Norman through the advertising, or if i have,, it would be because its older than than the regular stuff they sell,,so they have to get rid of it,,,,which is why i don't ever shop there. I am Surprised Hardly Normal is still trading because of the dominating electronic stores like JB's and WOW or other such store's in the online industry today.
Posted at 12:15 p.m. on December 3, 2008
Nick says...
Thanks for that David. Your reply doesn't sound delusional at all. I can assure you that selling repaired items or ex-display stock as new is very much illegal and I advise you that if you have been subjected to this kind of service there are a number of avenues you can go through to correct the matter. Frankly your comment seems a little paranoid if anything. Also, I'm not denying that other retailers such as JB Hifi, WOW, GG's & Retravision aren't as competitive as Harvey's.......but the article wasn't about them. The point of the matter is on-line stores will never take over retail completely as there are always going to be consumers who wish to see the product before they buy.
Posted at 2:12 p.m. on December 3, 2008
Bogan King says...
AJ -
You LCD was a second with a 1 year warranty!
Good luck champ!
Posted at 2:42 p.m. on December 5, 2008
ez says...
People seem to forget that Harvey Norman started the Intrest Free Phenomonen, this service is only intrest free to the customer, HN still has to pay for it and not everyone can just pull out a few grand to go buy something, so yes HN and other may be dearer on sticker value, but on sales and cash sales they are a clear market leader. Cdog must not have worked for HN for very long, or else he would realise HN put 4 times the money and time into specialty training for all its staff over its nearest competition, and in regard to his migrant workers comment, this is Australia not Mexico mate, wake up to yourself!
Posted at 2:33 a.m. on December 13, 2008
tank says...
Arrogance and self importance are a few characteristics of Gerry Harvey I find annoying. A clever retailer- for sure. Arguably deceptive business practices-definitely. A gauge of the overall economy- yes, because unfortunately most consumers are uneducated, easily swayed by advertising and really have no idea when it comes to pricing, technology or finance. Educated consumers will always seek the best value for their hard earned dollar- dumb ones will keep lining up outside a HN
Posted at 10:54 a.m. on December 16, 2008
Mice says...
I don't like HN for a number of reasons, mostly b/c I cant compare/purchase products online. You have gotta be crazy these days to go to a store without price comparassons and research. Plus, I dont think its even worth a look at those prodcuts, they are tucked away in the stores for a reason. Also, Mr Norman is rude and arrogant, I wont buy anything from HN
Posted at 3:16 p.m. on December 30, 2008
meks says...
Harvey normans are a bunch of rip off merchants, as for a discount they will only offer a couple of dollars or none at all depending on the way you dress, I have my own money but dress casual stubbies and a singlet and they don't even look at you! Or they ignore you! Way over price and are non negoitiable on their brands!
Posted at 11:16 a.m. on January 3, 2009
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